Dave Pirner – An Xperience Interview – by Jason Irwin.

I recently had the chance to speak with Dave Pirner, the frontman of Soul Asylum, ahead of his upcoming acoustic show (with the band’s guitarist Ryan Smith) on April 26 at Universal Preservation Hall in Saratoga Springs. We talked about the tour, Grave Dancers Union, the legacy of “Runaway Train,” the music history of their hometown of Minneapolis, guitar choices, movies, and even Prince’s legendary Super Bowl halftime show. Oh, and shoes. This was a fun interview.

RRX: Hi Dave. Can I call you Dave? And I’m glad to be speaking with you. Thanks for taking the time.
DP: Call me whatever you want. Dave is good. And sure.

RRX: We are all very much looking forward to the show in Saratoga Springs on April 26. It’s actually two days before my birthday, so I might have to make that part of the birthday celebration.
DP: Ah, s*** man, I’m April 16.

RRX: I know it is. I Googled it.
DP: That’s kind of weird, because I recently checked in with somebody who told me I should call my manager and change my Wikipedia entry. It says I was from Green Bay, Wisconsin. I actually know the guy who put that entry in there, and he said, “You’re not from Green Bay?” I said, “No.” He said, “Well, I’ll change it.” And I said, “No, you don’t have to, because now, if somebody who is interviewing me says, ‘So you’re from Green Bay,’ then I know they researched me on Wikipedia. I changed it, eventually.

RRX: So, as far as this tour goes, you’re doing the songs acoustically with just you and Ryan Smith. That must be a very different dynamic than the way you’ve probably played them thousands of times.
DP: It’s a really different dynamic – especially when talking about dynamics. It’s a little more labor-intensive, but it’s also less chaotic. One funny thing is I actually have to change my shoes for electric shows, and I don’t have to change for acoustic shows. There are a lot of ritualistic habits I fall into when playing electric. We started out electric. It’s more nerve-racking … more tactile. You’re more exposed. It’s intense because there’s less of a wall of noise to play around in. With an electric guitar, you can hit a chord once and let it ring for a couple of bars. With an acoustic guitar, you can’t really do that — you can’t just stop strumming, because there goes your rhythm section.

RRX: You mentioned shoes there. What shoes do you like better?
DP: (laughs) Wait…did you say shoes or shows?

RRX: Shoes.
DP: Oh. I thought you said shows with a weird accent. (He laughs, and in a somewhat leprechaun-ish voice, says, “We have a really big shoe for you tonight…”)

RRX: (Laughing) Nope — shoes.
DP: Well, the electric shoes are usually Chuck Taylor Converse. I’m just not comfortable in anything else. For the acoustic shows, I kind of forget about what’s on my feet because I’m more stationary.

RRX: Since you mentioned shows too, do you prefer the acoustic shows or the electric shows?
DP: I like the electric. It’s more bombastic, and you can’t hear people talking. It’s more of what Soul Asylum has always been about. But the acoustic thing is more intimate and more personal. At the same time, you’re a little more in the frying pan because there’s nowhere to hide.

RRX: Let’s talk about “Grave Dancers Union.” That’s one of my all-time favorite albums from that era. What songs from that record show up in the acoustic set? I’m guessing “Runaway Train” and “Black Gold.” Any others that may be surprising?
DP: Yeah, those for sure. We also do “Somebody to Shove,” “Without a Trace,” and “New World.” Those five songs often end up in the acoustic set. “Somebody to Shove” was interesting because it wasn’t on anyone’s brain that the song would work on acoustic guitar. When we did MTV Unplugged, we tried it, and it worked great. That’s when I realized the song can stand on its own either way. Now that I’m thinking about it, most of those were written on the acoustic guitar.

RRX: I was just going to ask you that. Are most of your songs written acoustically?
DP: The genesis of the songwriting definitely goes back and forth between acoustic and electric.

RRX: Looking back at the era when “Runaway Train” exploded, did you have any sense of how big it would become?
DP: No idea at all. It came from a very raw place. It wasn’t until we finished the record that I noticed people gravitating toward it. We were looking for a manager, and one guy heard it and said, “I want to manage this band.” I remember thinking, “What the f*** is up with that song?”

RRX: Well, it’s a great song. The video for that song was incredible, too.
DP: I’m still friends with Tony Kaye, who directed that video. We still talk, and I don’t have many relationships like that. He’s just a fascinating character with a very visual perception. He went on to direct “American History X” after that. When we sat down, and he started talking about milk cartons and missing children, I was like … wow, he’s really onto something. It’s always important for me to point out that the genesis – and that’s the second time I’ve used that word. The word of the day.  But that idea came from a British guy looking at milk cartons, going, “Maybe we could apply this to a music video.”

RRX: Are you a Genesis fan? You seem to like that word.
DP: I know. I think the answer to that question is … I like Peter Gabriel as much as I don’t like Phil Collins. I was never a huge fan of that band. Peter Gabriel, yes. Phil Collins, no.

RRX: My wife will be happy to hear that. She can’t stand Phil Collins.
DP: I couldn’t sing you a Mike and the Mechanics song. Wasn’t Mike Rutherford in that band? There you go.

RRX: What’s one of your favorite things to do besides playing Soul Asylum songs?
DP: Movies. I like anything from Kubrick and Scorsese to the Coen Brothers. Or, vehicles with Adam McKay and Will Ferrell. I just made a “Talladega Nights” pun. Is that a pun? I like old noir Hollywood movies and s*** like that. Foreign films, too, so I guess that officially makes me a film buff.

RRX: (This is where I hint at some of his hometown music alumni.) I’ve got a couple of weird questions. First … it’s 1984. Battle of the bands. The final two are The Replacements and Hüsker Dü. Who is taking home the trophy?
DP: Well, the first time I ever won an award for music, I gave a speech saying music is not sports, and we shouldn’t get trophies for competing with other musical entities. The “battle of the bands” seems kind of oxymoronic to me. I know why you’re asking me that, and it’s an impossible question to answer. I mean, Tommy Stinson played in Soul Asylum for a while … Bob Mould produced our first record. I love all those guys. They are all connected. I’ve known them since I was 18, so that’s an impossible question.

RRX: I knew that, so fair enough. Another one: Did Prince have the greatest Super Bowl halftime show ever?
DP: I just read about that again somewhere … I think somewhere in the swarm around this recent half-time show. Prince has always been a presence in Minneapolis. At first, he was kind of what the antithesis of what the punk rock crowd was about. Prince was too sexy. When you’re in a dirty, filthy punk rock band that hates keyboards and drum machines and hates dressing up and all that kind of stuff … it took me a really long time to appreciate Prince. But then he covered one of my songs, and I was like … okay. He’s completely won me over. I thought that the performance was great. I’m not positive that it would be considered the greatest ever had it not started to rain during “Purple Rain.” I think that put it over the top. Maybe it was one of the greatest ever.

RRX: A couple of fan questions. Damien asks if a new album is coming out.
DP: Yes. We’re working on new material now. I can kind of visualize the album and which songs are working best, so yeah — it’s in the oven.

RRX: Someone also said you had the coolest hair in rock and roll.
DP: I’ll take that.

RRX: Todd asks if you are looking for a bass player, and Josh mentioned your cameo in “Reality Bites.”
DP: No. But “Reality Bites” was a fun thing, and there was no pressure at all. I was basically just sitting on a bed while my friend Janeane Garofalo was talking. They didn’t give me a line … they just said, “Say something,” so I just made something up. (He laughs) I didn’t even get credit for that!

RRX: Laura asked if you’d be writing any songs about current events like “Misery.”
DP: I’ve already done it. In fact, my guitar player recently asked me, “Is this about the s*** that happened the other day?” Minneapolis has been a hotbed for a lot of things lately, and some of that ends up reflected in the songs. You start with George Floyd and end up with Renee Good, and there is just a bunch of messed-up stuff happening.

RRX: Charlie asks if you can teleport us back to 1994. On that … how do you see the music world now compared to when Soul Asylum first came up?
DP: Here’s another word of the day. The caveat (if I’m using that word correctly) is the internet. Soul Asylum’s GENESIS (laughs again) started before that. That’s three! The caveat was, how much was I going to give myself up to it? I still don’t even have an email address. But the important things haven’t changed. People still go out to see live music, and that’s what matters. I can still go see a jazz band. It’s still there if you know where to find it. I have a huge vinyl collection. I can still listen to records. No one can take that away from me. I have embraced computers and Pro Tools in the studio. I used to have a garage-sized room to store analog tapes. I just went to “the nerd center” and bought a 2TB drive that I’m worried is going to be lost in my pocket. There’s a trade-off. There are choices. The durable things that haven’t changed are what I rely on. Going to Saratoga Springs and playing? The internet hasn’t changed that at all. Thank goodness people still get out of the house and are around live music and do things that sometimes do seem threatened.

RRX: Tim asks why you chose a Telecaster as your main guitar. Did any other guitar ever make you rethink that?
DP: It’s what an electric guitar sounds like to me. When I was in junior high, I had a picture of Keith Richards playing one. That was the first electric guitar I ever got, and I’ve had several ever since. I’ve become familiar with the sound of a Les Paul, so in the studio, I might grab one of those or something else, but live, I’m not switching guitars every song. That’s below my pay grade.

RRX: After decades with Soul Asylum, what still keeps it exciting to get on stage every night?
DP: Just making music. When I was a kid playing in a youth symphony orchestra, I remember the feeling of being part of something bigger. It was a childhood revelation. When you’re playing with other people, it’s completely different than playing by yourself. That feeling never really goes away. I can sit in my basement and play by myself, but when you are part of an ensemble, it takes on a whole new meaning. Now we’re making music and having fun.

RRX: Dave, thank you so much for taking the time today. I’m looking forward to an awesome show when you come our way.
DP: Alright, my man. Take it easy.

Band info: soulasylum.com. Show info: atuph.org.

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